129. Exploring Energy in Leadership Gabrielle Pimstone w/ Favazza

Gregory Favazza: 0:00

That's really, really important. Now, Gabriel, if I were to leave you with the floor, you can share with our audience whatever you think is relevant and anything I haven't asked you. You can go ahead and share it if you like.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 0:13

I actually don't have anything more, because I think you've asked such poignant questions.

Announcer: 0:19

You're listening to a podcast that encourages you to embrace your vulnerabilities and authentic self. This is your transformation station and this is your host, Greg Favazza.

Gregory Favazza: 0:31

Hey, hi there, how are you?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 0:47

Yeah, good, how are?

Gregory Favazza: 0:48

you. I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I love the energy Good it's all about energy, isn't it?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 0:55

Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am.

Gregory Favazza: 0:58

I see you have a corporate psychology career for over 20-.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 1:02

OD. I was in OD for 27. And you've got an OD background, don't you?

Gregory Favazza: 1:09

Yes, ma'am, it's organizational leadership with a passion behind it, with psychology and a minor within content strategy. Yes, ma'am.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 1:22

Okay, well, that's my background, but I have pivoted. I can talk a little bit about what made me pivot, but I still do bring, because I've got 27 years of human transformation, I still bring that into the conversation, although I've come to understand that actually energy is what helps drive change, and I'm really happy to Sorry, my throat is really sore today I'm really happy to cover it from that angle.

Gregory Favazza: 1:51

Yes, ma'am, do you need to get a glass of water before we start, or anything I've?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 1:56

got water, I've got hot tea, but there is blue going around.

Gregory Favazza: 2:00

Oh, I do apologize.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:02

That's rough, that's all good, it's good.

Gregory Favazza: 2:05

It's Gabriel from Tim Pinstone. I don't know why I said prime. I wanted to say prime for some reason, so that was a little I like, yes.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:18

Gregory, where are you based?

Gregory Favazza: 2:20

I'm out in St Louis Missouri.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:23

Oh nice, that's that big arc.

Gregory Favazza: 2:25

Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. What about you?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:28

I'm based in Sydney, Australia.

Gregory Favazza: 2:31

Oh, wow, okay Cool. I was wondering what the accent. Definitely.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:37

Well, it's not American.

Gregory Favazza: 2:39

No, it's okay, though I've had a couple of people from Australia on, so I kind of picked that up a little bit, so I like that.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:46

Oh, it sounds great.

Gregory Favazza: 2:48

Yes, ma'am, but if you want to give us a little snapshot about your 27 years and what you can teach our audience, I think they'll greatly appreciate that.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 2:59

Yeah well, I mean, I have always been somebody who loves the idea of self-knowledge, personal growth and development. At the age of eight, I was already capturing my dreams, trying to make sense of them, journaling every day. I was really fascinated with the human psyche. I mean, obviously I didn't know it was that when I was that young, but it started young and it culminated with a Going to university studying organizational psychology and then having a really illustrious I'd say an illustrious 27-year career in organization development and human transformation, working with corporates, and for the most part, I loved it. It was such an integral part of my identity and that was what I was working with corporates, but I was feeling it myself. I was so identified, probably over-identified, and then in about 2020 or so, 2019, 2020, all of that changed because, over a period of a couple of years, the career that once blew my hair back no longer filled that role in my life. I was not. I started with, you know, became bored, it felt quite repetitive and then I became hugely anxious. I was in senior leadership roles, working in big banks, and I got to a day in August 2020 where I actually tuned into a podcast which was all about anxiety, and that podcast made me decide that, you know, I've been living in this invisible prison. The bars were keeping me trapped in an ongoing cycle of dread fear, and I needed to do something about my life and kind of had to put all my tools to work, which was you know, how do I make the right decision, how do I catalyze my you know change, my own change journey? And what I found was that my traditional psychology tools weren't working. So I had to explore another avenue and I found the discipline of energy mastery and it made all the difference in you know me changing and transforming my life.

Gregory Favazza: 5:25

And that's wow. There's a lot to unpack right there as we're getting the show started. One for my curiosity what got you established at age nine to just dive so deep into psychology in general and lastly, with 2020, what were the symptoms or feelings that you were going through? I know like in employee disengagement, but more so on your personal experience, you could share that with us.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 5:58

Okay, so I'm happy to share both of those. So I think some of it is we just wired particular ways and I've always been curious about human condition and I think if you spoke to my mum she would say I probably came out of the womb that way, but there was, yeah, there was a something happening in my life and my father was part. He was dying. He was sick with terminal cancer from when I was the age of five and so, yeah, and I think one of the things that really sparks change and curiosity and transformation in our lives are crises. You know, if you think about it in an organizational context, most cultures don't change until they experience a crisis.

Gregory Favazza: 6:52

Yes.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 6:53

Yes, that landed Right and it's the same with humans at an individual level. So my crisis was trying to make sense of my world as an eight-year-old, seven-eight-year-old child whose beloved father was leaving, and so that, I think, was the combination of being wired that way and also having a crisis in my own life was, I think, the catalyst for that. And then again, in 2020, there was another catalyst, because suddenly my career didn't make sense to me anymore. You know, and you asked what were some of the symptoms I was totally disengaged. I you know. Let me just talk, take out the corporate jargon and just talk from my own personal experience. So it was during the pandemic Gregory and most of I'd go into work like once, twice a week, but most of it was done virtually. It took so much effort for me to even log into Zoom, to get onto a virtual meeting. I had to prime myself, I had to steal myself when I was in conversations. I felt incredibly anxious. I felt out of my depth for the first time ever. I felt like a fraud. So I had all these thoughts going through my mind. My confidence was rattled. And then, on a physiological level, I wasn't sleeping. I was having constant butterflies in my stomach and my thyroid problems returned and I firmly believe it was activated by the high levels of stress that I was going under. So there were so many different symptoms. The other symptom almost kind of relationally and socially I withdrew from the world around me because I had just enough energy to make it to my laptop and dial into Zoom conversation. It was it kind of the tentacles just spread everywhere basically socially and just my self-esteem took a huge knock.

Gregory Favazza: 9:12

That is okay. So that's. I talked about this in one of the previous episodes that when we are getting into these Zoom calls and this was like during the COVID a lot of not just you like a lot of people were going through this stress and it's almost taking our primitive instincts and kind of forming them to this modern day stress that we're facing that where it's. We're facing ourselves in a completely different level.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 9:44

That's right and we will also. I mean a primitive instinct as human beings we have is a need for belonging and connection, and we were totally isolated. Even when I went into the office it was like empty. It was a bank and the floors were empty. They were like I could hear one or two voices somewhere far in the distance on the floor. So I think it activated a serious sense of isolation in all of us and if I'm, I think that was also playing in the background of what was happening to me, because I was feeling disconnected from my career and it wasn't a coincidence that I was totally disconnected physically from colleagues and from the bricks and mortar of working in corporate life.

Gregory Favazza: 10:32

I like that, that you had that awareness to recognize this isn't for you. That's what I'm gathering, is where this pivotal point is taking us to a new direction.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 10:42

Yes, I mean, the pivotal point was when I woke up on a Sunday morning I had severe anxiety. I felt it because I used my body a lot to tune into how I'm feeling, to tune into my thoughts, my emotions and, of course, my energy. And I tuned in and I was like what is this about? And I realized I had a feeling of bread that was building. It was like six in the morning on a Sunday morning because I had to go to work the next day. It was literally as simple as that and I couldn't face physically having to go in, and so I took myself off for a walk and I listened to a podcast, which is why I love coming onto podcasts, because they do change lives. This one changed my life. I was walking outside, did a bit of a hike and I had my AirPods on and I was listening to the story of a woman not a corporate woman, a mother actually who was talking about her daughter, who was about to give birth to her first child. So this woman had an incredible gift coming into her life, but she couldn't enjoy the moment because she was hung up on fearing that it would all go away, it would all be taken away. She spoke about living life as if waiting for the other shoe to fall, and when I heard that I was, this is me, you know, and I'm living in this spiritual prison. It's in my mind, but it's a prison that's keeping me trapped behind bars of anxiety, dread and unfulfillment. And actually, what happened after that podcast is the next day I phoned the employee assistance program at work and I got some advice, and I ended up resigning from that job that day, and it wasn't a rash decision. It was a well thought through decision that had been building for a long time, and so when we are at inflection points in our lives, we need to pay attention to the signs and the signals, and that often come from within. I'm really curious about why people ignore those signs and signals. What is it that is so terrifying about change that you would rather sit with a status quo that is untenable than make a few adjustments in your life?

Gregory Favazza: 13:07

Wow, okay, that makes a lot of sense with the awareness to recognize with the journaling I journal as well. When I'm out of sync I can always look back on my journals and just see I have a little one through five little numbering system on just whether I'm in good or bad and I could look at it real quick to see what I wrote about there. I can calibrate to understand. All right, it's been a cyclic kind of experience. This is normal for me as well as for seasons. But you had that intuition to know that this is not for me and then you were able to make that choice rationally. Now, for those that are listening, how can they recognize for themselves that they are making a rational choice and this isn't something based off of emotion?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 14:05

Yeah, I think that's right. I think it's not bad to make. I think all our decisions are a combination of rational and emotion. You can't strip emotion out of decisions, because then your decision has absolutely no, there's nothing to it. In a sense, it's the emotion that drives the decision. It's both of those I think you're absolutely right around. You have to have practices in your life that allow you to tune in. It's all about tuning into yourself. That sounds very simple, but most of us don't do it. Most of us feel terrible about something, have moments, have periods, and we just ride over them. Now your discipline, your way of tuning in, is journaling, as is mine, but also very simple acts. You can set an alarm on your mobile phone and every morning before you get up, or if we even in, before you go to bed, or several times a day, the alarm could go off and then it becomes a reminder for you to just tune into yourself. And what that looks like is for me, it's finding. It's one or two minutes, that's all. It is finding a quiet space meaning turning off my mobile, stepping away from my laptop, being by myself in solitude and really asking myself, inquiring, power of inquiry, asking myself am I feeling heavy or am I feeling light? Am I feeling open or am I feeling closed? You can ask those questions and you can really get into your state that way and where you do that, that bypasses thoughts, it bypasses emotions. That takes you into your body and then to really sit with it and get a sense what's up for you. It's really. That's my practice, as well as as journey. You need to have a discipline and practices that allow you to tune into yourself. For some people, it's dreaming. I'm a big fan of working with dreams, you know. I know a lot of people, myself included, who wake up in the morning and they capture what they dreamt about.

Gregory Favazza: 16:20

And it's a former journey.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 16:21

It's a former journaling, but it's a different kind of journaling that takes you into your unconscious and that helps you really understand what's up for you. Where are you coming from, deep within? So that would be my answer to your question.

Gregory Favazza: 16:35

That is beautiful, and I want to follow up with a dream in a second, but I wanted to express this for the audience. So what if they're not aware that they're avoiding something? I mean, let's say they're in the vehicle and they have to have the music on. They can't ride in silence. They have to distract themselves with the TV on because they don't want to hear silence. Thus what their body is trying to tell them.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 17:02

You know, I think personal development and growth and transformation is you spoke about seasons If there's a time and a season for it, and if that's where you are and it's too challenging for you to be in silence for a couple of minutes, probably for me you're not ready, but the readiness is all, isn't it? I think it was Shakespeare that said that. So if you're not ready, then then it's not your time, and I think you know that the simple act of being by yourself for a couple of minutes, if you're not ready for that, you're not ready for transformation. And so I would say you know your time will come. And the truth about you know transformation is that we all need a bit of a kick up. You know the butt. We need a catalyst. We need doesn't have to be a crisis In my case it was a crisis but the universe, or the world around you, your environment, it's going to give you reason to change at some point in another. And it seems to me that if somebody's not ready to spend two minutes by themselves, it's not their time and place to transform. It will be at some point. I trust timing a lot.

Gregory Favazza: 18:16

That's interesting. That's a different way to look at it as not their time, meaning that there's more work to be done before they can get to this next level of transformation.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 18:26

That's exactly right, because if you want to transform, gregory, you've got to be in a non-resistant state. You can't transform your life from a resistant state, and resistance can look different for different people, but if you've got internal barriers, then you're not going to transform. So the idea is to find and capitalize on moments when you're ready and to go with those moments, and those moments aren't always with us. Sometimes we are more ready than others. So you know, you've got to be in that non-resistant, energetic state in order to take the first step and continue on your process of growth, and that's kind of what I'm talking about here.

Gregory Favazza: 19:12

I really do like that. This next question is kind of for me. So with the dream state. I remember I was dreaming last night, so I fell asleep early and before I went to bed I was rocking around this track at the school and I think I did maybe like three or four miles with a 50-pound rucksack. And I remember seeing deer out there and they're just running by. And Right when I went to bed I started to dream. I saw myself back at the track and I was rocking and only this time the deer that was running by it stopped in front of me and started to like drop its head down. It was a big buck, it didn't started to run towards me. And next thing I know I'm waking up to throwing my fist and through the wall, thinking I'm hitting the deer. But it's not. It's the wall, it's stance.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 20:14

Oh, wow. So I'm like, ah, I'm like.

Gregory Favazza: 20:18

I don't know what that's about. That's interesting.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 20:20

Oh, I think there's something you know and I don't think there's one way to analyze dreams, but you've got to go in and ask yourself what is a big buck symbolized? For me, when you talk about a big buck, just generically speaking, it's a symbol of masculinity.

Gregory Favazza: 20:35

Yeah.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 20:35

Right. So that's something for you to go away, think about.

Gregory Favazza: 20:40

Interesting Okay.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 20:42

Yeah, so the thing with dreaming is you don't really have to know what your dream means Initially. You just need to get into that discipline of capturing your dreams and you're actually in the beginning. Most of us don't remember our dreams. You seem to remember yours, but a lot of listeners won't remember their dreams. So if that's the case, all you need to do when you wake up is take out your journal, take out a piece of paper and capture how you're feeling when you wake up, because that felt sense will take you in to what's up for you and what's happening below the waterline in your unconscious.

Gregory Favazza: 21:23

Yes. So for those that are listening, if they wanted to try to start learning how to capture their dreams for me, I always go back to where I have my dreams, of course, which is in bed. I will actually lay down and get into a comfortable place and if I can't recall the dreams that day, but by doing that action I am able to start recalling parts of the dream. All I need to remember is one part, and once I get that, the rest just starts to follow suit. It's weird how it happens.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 21:55

Exactly, and sometimes in the beginning they come in snippets, right they? come in blocks and then the storyline comes together. It's interesting because I've been working with dreams for so many decades and that actually happened to me this week. I didn't. I knew I had dreamt, but I couldn't remember it. And then I had a memory. The minute I had a memory, I started capturing it, and that's important, because dreams do evaporate, you would know that. So it's capture it. And then I remember just capturing only a paragraph. I was thinking this can't be it. And then later I don't remember how much later, maybe 15, 20 minutes later more came and then the storyline emerged, which is interesting.

Gregory Favazza: 22:36

That is really interesting. So, with corporate psychology, what can leaders utilize to apply to today's corporate culture Like what? Are some recommendations you can give our leaders who are listening today?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 22:55

Well, as leaders and this is the work that I've moved into you have to be self-aware and there's just no getting away from it. You are the tool of your trade. So we all have a signature presence as leaders and I'm really all into authenticity. So we have in our normative role, in the roles in organizations, that requires us to show up in a particular way that enables us to make an impact and to influence the system and to facilitate change in an organization. And it's vital, when we do that as organizations, that we bring our own stamp, to make our mark and to contribute our thinking into the organization. So, as a leader, you have to be able to know and tap into your signature presence, and that's a mixture of things. It's a unique combination not just of your capabilities, your qualities, your values, your beliefs, but also your energy, how you show up, what is your dominant energy? When you walk into a room, how are you experienced within the first five seconds? That's your unique thinker print, along with your skills, et cetera. So I think the work for leaders is the way that you inhabit your leadership role in a way that nobody else in the organization does and that you do through a process of self-reflection, self-development. You have to be on a constant path of self-discovery. That would be what I would leave leaders thinking about, and energy is a very big component of that. What is your dominant energy? Are you someone who's experienced as a peacemaker or are you at war with the world constantly? Are you someone who's experienced as a giver or a taker? I mean, I'm just thinking of the kathya. You have to understand energetically what you embody, because all of that is felt before your spills and your talents, all of that. So what you do as a leader is preceded by how you experience. So I would recommend the journey of finding, articulating and tapping into your unique signature as a leader.

Gregory Favazza: 25:30

So now this raises a question. So understanding our energy that we are giving off and how it's being perceived, can that affect the leadership style?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 25:42

It's all about that, it's all affects that. So, when you know, leaders go through 360s, you know in the workplace, and they get upward feedback and feedback from everywhere. People are responding to how they are experienced. They don't respond, they're not responding to what they're doing. They're responding to how that person shows up. It's the experience of the person and all of that is dictated by our energetic state, our primary state, and I gave you a few examples of that. So it's all about leadership style, and that's what I mean by by signature presence, leadership style and and you know, and one of the missing ingredients in so many organizations, most organizations is people don't approach style from the perspective of energetic state. They approach it from skills and capabilities and values and all of that stuff, which is important. But there's an energy that we carry that is a sum of the frequency of all our thoughts, are limiting beliefs, our overwhelming emotions that trap us up. They all have it all come together to a constellation, to an energetic experience of a person. That's where you shift the dial as a leader.

Gregory Favazza: 27:09

Okay so, with having this, encompassing this, encompassing understanding how, like the values, the mission of this organization, it creates the individual, or the ideal individual that represents this company, and some people could perceive that as confidence, others could perceive that as a tyrant. How, how do we know that will, how we're, how we're illustrating this energy to be good for who's listening or who I'm interacting with, versus not good?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 27:47

How do you get in touch with energy? That's kind of the question you asked.

Gregory Favazza: 27:50

Yes, that's yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, ma'am, Thank you.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 27:55

There are so many ways. I think the most you get in touch with your energy by getting touch with your thoughts, and your thoughts produce emotions which then create an energetic stamp. So I think one of the ways you know you need to watch your thoughts that would be a thing on a more tactical level Watch your language. Language is the way of the language we use. The words we use Give us a clue about our energetic state and how we're feeling about ourselves. So you know, some of us talk to ourselves, some of us catching yourself in that moment, or if you're in a conversation with someone, catching yourself saying words like idiot, exhausted, whatever they may be, and and it's amazing, when you do that, you realize how often you say words, and words give you an insight into what's going on inside you.

Gregory Favazza: 28:58

I knew it. I knew it. I just mentioned this to somebody like not even an hour ago, on like it. Depending on the type of vocabulary you're using and who you're addressing to, even if it's yourself or even if it's through third person, you're talking like people watching, like look at that guy, look at that idiot. He doesn't know how to park will automatically you are already projecting onto that person. It shouldn't bother you if he can't park. You know, maybe he's a perfectionist and he wants to be parallel with the lines.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 29:30

And if you use in that word idiot, what is that saying? And a lot of people do. I just worked with somebody spoke about the word dumb. You know I'm dumb, dumb, dumb and it's the same thing. You know what, if you go into that, what is the conversation you're having about yourself? Because that your confidence yourself talk proceeds what you're saying to others as a leader, as a person, and so this concept of getting in touch with our inner dialogue is such an important leadership skill. It's not just for leaders, it's for anyone, because that then becomes the quality of the conversations you have with other people and the quality of your interactions and relationships. So you know, that's the basis of dialogue. In a dialogue isn't about having a good conversations, about getting in touch with yourself and then get curious about others, and I think that that goes for anyone trying to improve the way they show up and interact in the world. And the self talk is really easy, very confronting but very simple way of getting in touch with what's going on inside ourselves. You don't have to write your dreams down, as that's too onerous. You can just watch your language, watch what you say to yourself and others.

Gregory Favazza: 30:54

That's really, that's really, really important. Now, gabriel, if I were to leave the, leave you with the floor. You can share with our audience whatever you think is relevant and anything I haven't asked you. You can go ahead and share if you like.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 31:09

But you don't have anything more because I think you've asked such poignant questions and really thoughtful questions. Thank you for the Gregory. Maybe I would say one thing that actually it's energy that runs the show and if you want epic transformation in your life, get in tune with your energetic state and make sure that you are making change from a place of openness, activity, curiosity, you know, developmental mindset and a beginner's mind.

Gregory Favazza: 31:44

Very beautiful For our audience. If they want to get in touch with you, how can they learn more?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 31:49

I think Instagram would be a great way to connect with Gabriel Dupimstone. If it's corporate conversation, I'm on LinkedIn but, yeah, Instagram would be a really great way of connecting with me.

Gregory Favazza: 32:02

Beautiful. I will link that all in the show notes. I appreciate you coming on the show today.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 32:07

Appreciate you having me. Thank you so much.

Gregory Favazza: 32:11

Perfect, you got everything. Gabriel, does that work out for you?

Gabrielle Pimstone: 32:15

You're a great interviewer. I was questioning whether this was the right interview, the right podcast from you, and I'm so glad that I came on board because you've got such wisdom. Thank you, and I really love, I really enjoyed our conversation.

Gregory Favazza: 32:29

Me too, thank you, yes, ma'am, I will email you when everything's all done and let you know when it's released.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 32:35

Sounds great. Will you have a video version of this that you could send to me? Because I make clips and I could I like to make my own clips and post them, use them as content for my social media. So if you could send that to me or drop it in Dropbox somewhere, I'd really appreciate that.

Gregory Favazza: 32:52

Yes, ma'am, I'll be glad to do that for you.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 32:55

And my last thing are you on Instagram? Should we follow one another?

Gregory Favazza: 32:58

Yes, we can. Yes, I'm, it's called YTSPod.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 33:04

And I'll follow you, then you follow me and we'll support each other through this journey.

Gregory Favazza: 33:09

Beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much for your time today.

Gabrielle Pimstone: 33:12

Thank you so much, all the best.

Gregory Favazza: 33:13

All right, you take care. Bye.

Announcer: 33:43

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