68. WHO Comes First "Leaders or Followers" 'Jerry Fu' w/ 'Favazza'

The better answer if something is not going to quite desperate, patients is to say, Hey boss, this is I've tried options, one, two, and three, and all three of these have failed. So, um, in light of this, you know, are there a re sources that you could recommend so that, you know, because you need to basically kind of, you know, account for the fact that yes, boss I've been at work, I am not making excuses. And this is what had done so far, and this is where it's gotten me. So, uh, you know, I feel like I've come to the end of my own abilities or, you know, perspective, you know, what else can you suggest so that I can be sure to, um, honor and meet expectations?

How can you create a transformation and others, if there's no transformation in yourself, join your host, Greg Favazza, as your voice on the hard truth. So leadership. Your transformation station, connecting Clara, Clara to the cutting edge of leadership. As millennials, we can establish change, not only ourselves, but through organizational change, bringing transparency that goes beyond the organization and reflects back into ourselves. And. Yeah, actionable advice and alternative perspectives that will take you outside of yourself.

Jerry. Welcome to your transformation station. Excellent. What can you share with our listeners here today? A little snapshot about yourself and what makes you so unique?

Uh, well, I mean, I think some of the things, if I had to kind of, you know, show off some of the tools in my toolbox, I mean, Uh, I took German in high school. So that always surprises people. Yeah. Well,

Jerry, your, your, tell us about your leadership and what you tailor your star, your strong shoot to your specific

audience. Sure. Yeah, I think, uh, in terms of that regard, um, yeah, I, I I've gotten very good at listening actively. Um, that's the first thing is just to really. Um, instead of jumping in with a solution immediately, just because I feel like I'm still familiar with the problem, let me slow down and really learn the, learn the situation. Um, more completely. Um, second is just, yeah, the types of questions that I ask, you know, just really getting to the heart of an issue and then, you know, um, kind of just giving, offering tools that, um, you know, I've refined over the years in my own experiences and just saying, but not imposing them on them, uh, on, on my clients or anybody else, but say, Hey. Here's a hammer or a screwdriver or a power drill, which of these is most useful to you or which one catches your interest. Right. And then giving them the chance. Um, and then, yeah, just the, the life experiences that I can, I can draw. Uh, you know, it's not a typical path by any stretch, you know, dealing with bounced paychecks with a crooked boss. That's never good dealing with, um, you know, uh, finding out that I went out to send the school director. My, my second day on the job, there was a guy sexually harassing a woman in the class and they just tell me, Hey Jerry, go handle it. It's like, okay, sure. Let me just run toward the gunfire. Right? No plan, no manual. Um, I like that.

Jerry, let me, let me, uh, let me roll out the red carpet for you a little bit. So. We're in pharmacy almost like a 12, 10, 10 years

ago now. 16, 16. Oh yes. So

you've had a lot happened since then you focus your specialties and had been refining and refining and leadership and the people that you. Coach that you help is Asian American culture. Is that correct?

Yeah. That's the, that's the ideal client, correct.

Okay. Yes. So tell us a little bit about that and customs and courtesies and what makes it different from culture to culture,

with your special. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, you know, the unspoken rules, you kind of learn the hard way, right? Uh, one is that if you are a guest in someone's house, number one, you always show up with a gift. Uh, you always so up with something as a, as a token of appreciation for, Hey, thank you for letting me stay, you know, like three days. So, you know, for the weekend or something like that. And it took me a while to pick up on that. Uh, another was, um, you know, when, after you're done staying there. Uh, you leave the guest room and whatever facilities they make available to you. You leave them as if no one was there to begin with. Like you leave them either in the same shape you found them or better somehow. Um, if there's things that you could clean up. Um, you know, you, you don't learn this until often that is too late. And then you're like, well, why didn't they ask us back? And it's like, oh, it's just a really, it's a really, um, unfortunate game to play where you have this honor shame dynamic, right. Where it's like, okay, we only want to do things that bring honor. We don't want to bring shame. But then when that fear of bringing shame. Uh, involved, oh, here are the expectations for our guests, right? Hey, take off your shoes before you enter the house, um, you know, leave things the way you found them, you know, clean up as best you can. But we often as Asians play the short game and say, well, you know, let the guests do what they want, but if they secretly can all these tripwires that make us upset. Well, you know, we just want to invite them back. It's like, they're willing to, and they're willing to basically kind of quietly cut off the relationship rather than. Um, you know, embarrassing their guests or things like that, even though the short-term pain is better, right. In managing that and resolving that conflict is better than, you know, just letting them do what they want without any level of awareness. And then saying, well, you know, they can't be that good a friend if they didn't figure out the game, the secret rules of, of that game. So, um, to come out and be able to. More vocal about that without being sounding diva ish or antagonistic. When, when explaining these things is really the heart of what I want to equip all my clients with so that, Hey, I don't have to stay resentful. Um, just because I felt like if bringing my, bringing up my needs and interests or perspectives. Uh, cause problems or I wouldn't know how to handle that if they, so I

really like that where you relate it in the personal realm, as far as inviting guests now, I'm, I'm guilty. I'm the guy where it's like, go ahead, do what you want. But it's like, in the back of my mind, I have an idea of what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable. And I think that that's what they would know what, in reality, I mean, we grew up from different. Uh, areas, we just there's a different social upbringing. So their normal is completely different and I'm just more of just a perfectionist. So there's certain, there's a lot more than the average where I will like freak out, like, whoa, do not touch. Like my collection of things. Just get out of there. Just don't go in that room. It's like, That's how can we relate that into a organization as far as leaders and having that expectation met towards, um,

their followers? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. Um, the times where we've, I know I've had the most success is when is when the. You allow for discussion, right? Like let's, you know, um, one of the, one of my favorite things to do when we lead leadership workshops, but this also works, you know, in, in like, you know, on the clock is when we ask, you know, say my technicians, Hey, you know, what do you, if you were in charge, what kind of rules would you set? Like what kind of practices would you want if you were in charge? And, you know, they'll say things like, oh, you know, we want to communicate, well, we want to solve problems quickly. Uh, we want people to be confidence. And so one thing we always plant is to while punctuality, right? It looks starting on time and no one says, well, no, I don't want to start on time. Like no one says, nah, I don't want to admit that I'm just lazy or something like that. Right. And so, but you'll allow for them to discuss a student. You can say, Hey look, here's something that I want to put on the table. Do you want it yesterday? No. Okay. All right. Like, you know, thank you for your honesty. And so, uh, to allow for that discussion, um, and when people have a say right in the kind of rules and policies that you set, you get a lot more buy-in when they feel like they've been heard. And what's funny is at one time, On the clock. You know, we started to do a morning huddle. We used to have a weekly meeting, but then like the agenda would just like accumulate after a week and we just, it would just be terrible. And so we started to do daily huddles just to kind of wash out the agenda, you know, more regularly. But what's funny is one of the newer texts didn't like that. And she goes, I don't see the point where it will basically. We're just talking about the same thing over and over again. Uh, I think a weekly meeting would be more appropriate and all the other texts actually overrode her. And they're like, Hey Denise, thank you for, you know, expressing your opinion. And we're, you know, we've been through that and you know, we're, we're not going to go back to that because, um, you know, we shouldn't have to let you experience how inefficient and drawn out these are just for you to get on board with the fact that a morning huddle is more practical and. Ooh. I like

that. That's very well put let's backtrack though. You said something perfect. Um, as far as with people being honest, open and honest, how do you know that they are being open and honest? And can you distinguish that from them? Just they're trying to avoid not saying anything stupid that would get them into.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, dealing with agency, you have to deal with this right now. How's it? How's everything like, oh, that's my boss. What's that fire in the back? No, no, no. That's nothing, you know, tiny fire it's okay. Uh, no, I mean, uh, you know, you have to, as a boss, you have to establish, you know, earn their trust. Right. Normally they think, oh, you're the new. Uh, higher on the block or you have the lowest rung on the totem pole, then you have to earn trust that that's that's history regardless. But, uh, when leaders are willing to ask, Hey, how do I earn your trust? Right. And then you ex you show, Hey, look, I'm just trying to set you up to succeed. How do I help you succeed at this organization? Right. How do I make sure that you look good? Uh, so that I look good. And so. When employees realize, Hey, my boss is not just the big, bad, like, secretly looking for things where I mess up and building a case to get me fired. It's like, no boss wants to do everything he can to help me succeed. Yeah. I got to

get it back in there again, like I like, would you have it? You lose it. It's like,

okay, now we're gonna, we're going to fight through it, man. We gotta power through it. It's okay. It's

okay. We are back from our break here. So what can you tell us about what you've learned with your clients and what could you use this information that you've obtained to relay to our audience, for them to become a better leader today?

Yeah. So, um, kind of to elaborate a little more on there, on what we previously were discussing. Right. Um, part of it is being able to draw out when you provide a safe environment. Right? When I, when bosses normally, right? Yeah. With Asians, it's like, oh, boss, man, got to make sure that bosses and upset and you know, don't want. Possibly give him any information that might upset him. So I'm just going to have to say everything's fine. Even if not, everything is fine, because I don't want to admit that if for some reason something's not going to plan that somehow if I ask for his help, um, you know, that that would look poorly upon me. Right. Um, on one hand. Yeah. I realized in my own journey, Hey boss, doesn't want to hear stories about why you couldn't get the job done. Boss just wants to get the job done. So, you know, um, re utilize as much as you can't, but the better answer, if something is not going, according to expectations is to say, Hey boss, this is I've tried options, one, two, and three, and all three of these have. So, um, in light of this, you know, are there a re sources that you could recommend so that, you know, because you need to basically kind of, you know, account for the fact that yes, boss I've been at work. I am not making excuses. And this is what I've done so far, and this is where Scott. So, uh, you know, I feel like I've come to the end of my own abilities or, you know, perspective, you know, what else can you suggest so that I can be sure to, um, honor and meet expectations. Right. Um, and for me, right, my biggest mistake was thinking, yeah. Oh, well, if I just have a good enough reason to fail, then, then Boston will be upset. It's like, no, no, no, that's how you get fired, which happened. Uh, and so, and so, uh, Uh, what I try to communicate to my clients is that, Hey, don't play scared. Um, you know, so one client day, You know, he had a lot of challenges trying to, uh, design a career path that he was actually happy with. And with that in mind, right. He, he left his, you know, the city, he grew up in to take a job at a company he was more excited about, but had no, you know, community or social support. Um, and you know, he grew from that experience, but along the way, he would get job offers, you know, close to the home or opportunities. And he would ask me, Hey, This job, isn't, it's closer to where I want to be like socially, but it's a slight detour, or it's going to take me down a path, you know, in my career, I'm not interested in pursuing what do I do? And so it wasn't my place to tell him, oh, you got to take this job or don't take this job. It was more about what is the most important thing, uh, you need to say yes to, right? What is the most important commitment right now? Because the decision-making. Get difficult between the good and the bad. It gets hard between the great and the good right. Say, okay, what is the, what is the biggest game I need to hunt right now? Right? In one way of asking that, uh, another client, right? Oh, you

don't monologue don't

you monologue. I mean, I know

I like where this is going. This is, this is good. All right. Now let's climb up the channel a little bit. Now tell us your approach on how you would handle an organization as a whole. I'm talking. We're going from team leader position to see, oh, how would you orchestrate the distribution and delegation of leadership of your resources and how would you pivot if something would occur?

Yeah. Yeah. Great question. Um, yeah, part of it is why do, why are we, why would we even start this company? Like, what problem are we trying to solve? Or, you know, what, what delight, you know, or what experience do we want to provide, right? Cause those are the, if we're talking about business experiences, right? Either you solve a pain point, that people are willing to pay money for a solution for, or provide some. Pampered like spy experience that people are saying, oh, this is wonderful. Like I would, you know, shell out money to feel like a kink. Right. So what are we trying to do? Right. What, what are we trying to do? What does it benefit of, of even trying this out? Right. So once you, because if you don't have a clear. Reason for even starting a company. Right? The buy-in is very, very difficult, even from a, even from like the leadership standpoint. Right. Because if leadership is not on board with how they're trying to make money and what that benefit to society is, you know, how, how to expect anyone hire you hire to really be excited about their job. Right. Um, so part of it, yeah. So have that targeted. And then to say, okay, um, now that we have a strategy in mind, all right, how do we want to set up this company? Right. Do we need, you know, several mid-level managers? Yes or no? Um, you know, let's set that up and then also, okay. Um, what kind of culture do we want to provide? Right. And you can get bogged down, you can get bogged down right. And saying things. So I've been I've, I've made this mistake. Oh, we need integrity. What does that even mean? We don't know, but it just sounds like a word that, you know, companies need to have. Right. Um, Donald Miller talks about, Hey, no, just list key characteristics, like three to five. Hey, I need people who are punctual and focus and efficient. You know, coachable and communicate well right now you have a clearer, oh, I need these five things. These are very specific and concrete. Okay. This, we need this in everybody. Right. Um, and so. Once you have an idea of what kind of personalities or, or, you know, positions you need. Okay. Um, yeah. Now how do we keep them engaged? How do we inspire them to really, um, be not just to motivate them with like bonuses to things, but, you know, to provide an environment, they would be excited to work for knowing that their work is meaningful and that they're given a level of autonomy. Uh, to get that job done. So those are some things there. You you've, you've

got a lot of touch points for me to play with here. Yes. I want to, I want to go a little back and I want to talk about this approach. How would you handle it if we were to expand, say, outside the state or even outside the country? I think that would be a real good one as far as understanding what that

entails. Yeah. Uh, great question. If it were up to me, um, You know, I think the magic number I would read about is like anything greater than 150 people like total from, you know, total number of employees just gets very difficult to manage. And so you want to keep groups relatively small, like if, if I were to franchise this thing, right. Just to say, okay, start, uh, you know, yeah. We have a group started up here. Don't get, don't get more than 20 people, you know, make sure your. Um, you know, comply with any local laws that may, you know, other new circumstances that are different to ours, right? Do your research, right. Do that homework, make sure everything is compliant. Make sure that you are aware of how you may need to adapt these principles to local cultures. And, you know, as long as people agree on the benefits, uh, yeah. You know, plant the seed, I mean, agree on the plan and the benefits of this. Yeah. Plant the seed and then see how it grows. Um, we G we, the saying, I I've heard that I liked this, like, you know, poinsettias look different in different kinds of soil, but people know it's a point set up. So yeah.

I liked that. Why small numbers, why not?

Um, just, there's no secrets, man. When, when you only have 10 people, right. You gotta, you gotta, you can't hide anything. Right. And if you do, you're going to be found that pretty quick. And so, um, you know, we, we talk about like in small groups, right? Like we say, oh yeah, no more than six people. Because as soon as you have more than six, right. Then, you know, not everyone feels heard or people like it's easier to hide and people kind of just kind of swim under the radar. You know, if there's, as long as they're, you know, there might be cases where that's okay and people are just saying, Hey, I don't need to be as vocal or visible and is also still contributing. Um, you know, and maybe there's a place for that, but with companies you need everyone engaged and, uh, and provide a level of accountability that you don't get when, you know, And you get big enough, right. And the people start skimming things off the top. And that was going to miss this, you know, if I take like some office supplies from the closet, you know, and that there's, there's, uh, there's a great book. Incidentally called predictably rational where it's like the lead, um, experiments talks about he's like, no, no one will steal the entire boat, but people will, when given the chance, they'll shave a couple of dollars off, you know, here and there. So it's like, Hey, just don't let that.

I liked that. So with, uh, let's say you do have a larger team, you have more manpower than you can handle. Okay. For somebody in that position, how can they utilize their, their resources and how can they get these people to work effectively without overextending themselves in the process?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a hierarchy, uh, when done well, right. You would, I mean, this is, we can talk in theoretical things, but it's like, okay, what are like catalog all the tasks that are involved or catalog everything and then start to group them in like four or five major categories, right. Just to say, okay, How can we group things into, you know, so that each group doesn't have more than like 10 things that they're responsible for something like that. Right. And then, okay. Who matches up with these tasks? Right. Some groups might be smaller. Some groups may be slightly larger, but we know, Hey, this is the limit of how big groups can be. Okay. Uh, once we've basically grouped the tasks and that we believe are fair or, you know, like are associated in some reasonable way. Okay. Let's appoint someone to be in charge of each of these divisions. Right. And so now, um, the hierarchy is not to like inflate. Anyone's ego is to say, Hey, who is ultimately responsible for the health of the group? Um, you know, let's play and we need people. We need one person to play point for each of these. Right. And so, um, and again, use, uh, leverage the democratic approach where you say, Hey guys, we need your help trying to sort out everyone's talents. And how do we match tasks? Right. Um, how do we make sure that we have personalities that will, um, that will, you know, are committed to the greater good of the company, even if there's a productive conflict in the middle of things. Like, it's not that you won't argue. It's just, why are you arguing about bingo?

All right, stop right there. You got, you gotta hit this for the people that you have that are in charge. That's taking point for these groups. What would their personalities be in your opinion?

Well, I mean, it's. I think it's different for everybody. And that's the easy answer, but let's go into specifics, right? Like, um, you know, the people, regardless of whether or not you're introverted or extroverted, because we're not here to, because their strengths to both. Um, but like if I were to hire leaders, I need people. Um, our coachable, um, you know, to that kind of what I mentioned earlier, you know, I need people that when I give them feedback, they understand, Hey, there, it's nothing personal. We're just looking to improve. And you know, they're going to adjust whatever, you know, they need to, and just demonstrate, uh, by their work that they took my feedback seriously. Right. Um, I need people who build relationships well, so I need people that know how to earn trust or at least study. The ways that you need, the ways that may, these are in their teams trust and those bosses trust. And then we say, okay, you know, I need to set a good example for everybody. Um, I don't have to necessarily burn the midnight oil, but I do want to be sure that people, uh, there, there was no question about how hard. Um, other qualities, you know, I think about the leader, I'm all of my own style after, are they fun to be around? Right. Do they aren't they, you know, are they do they wind a lot? It's like, no. Okay. Please. Don't write complaints are never fun to be around. And I've been guilty of that myself. Yeah. Right. Um, and so, you know, I look at people who are, are they fun to be around number one, you know, because they've earned their trust. Right. They're fun. They're usually fun to be around. Number two. Are they fun to learn from. Um, that I've, I've taken heart, you know, uh, to learning interesting things so that people are just like, Hey, what's Jerry, what else is Jerry learning? You know? And I can share interesting things with them. Um, and then just to continue to collaborate, well, Hey, you know, this is what I was experimenting with. What do you think? And all of a sudden people are like, oh, wow, Hey. Yeah, my opinion is important. So, uh, things like that, um, I would look for in people who lead because. Um, I know I can there, and they're fun to be around, you know, that working on themselves is not just something to do for the boss, but something to do for themselves. And, uh, I think those are key characteristics. Any people who are willing to grow, I

liked that I really do. Now, how do we illustrate H how do we, I want to make sure people who are in this position, they can take something away from this. Are they, how do you decipher people who are actually an individual. Is not learning because this is the only thing they have. And they're just echoing everything you say, but they're actually taking this information that's being passed down and learning and wanting to apply efficiency and bring back higher numbers, bring back results. And that wants to make a change because they believe in what the organization

is saying. Yeah. Great question. Um, I think a lot of. If I I'm just thinking out loud at this point, you know, part of what I'll, I'll give an example. So part of it is in the screening process, right? Like when I interview people, one of my favorite questions to ask is, you know, what do you do with your free time? Um, or what was the last book you read? Right. If they're reading books and they say, oh, I, you know, I read this, you know, nonfiction book by, you know, um, John Maxwell. Right. And I read this and I was looking at things. You know, that's, that's a good sign. Right? I remember there was one technician I interviewed and she talked about how I said, what are you doing in your free time? She goes, oh, I'm working on my kitchen and refurbishing all the refurnishing, all the cabinets. And I was just floored because I'm just like, wait, you're doing this yourself. And she's just like, oh yeah, she's like, I'm a do it. I'm a, I'm a fix it kind of person. I love projects. And I'm sitting there thinking, this is, this is a big green light. Right. This is good. Um, and then, but yeah, so, but on the clock, right, you can just ask them, Hey, you know, how's this going? Oh, well, you know, numbers, aren't, you know, numbers. Aren't where I need them to be. It's like, okay, so what's your next action? Right? What do you think the real challenge here for you? And if they give me answers that say, okay, like, and they think about some solutions that they're once implement. Right. And then I say, okay, now that you've come up with. Strategies or some, some action items. Okay. Well, let me just check back in a week or two, see how things are going. Right. I'm going to give them space to say, okay. Yeah. Here's, here's an idea. Here's the target I'm shooting for. Let's see how it goes, because it's not about the goals necessarily, unless it comes to just making sure you have enough revenue coming in, it's more about the process of goal setting and just saying, Hey, okay. If things aren't going the way they need to. All right, let me come up with some solutions that I can expect.

Okay, this, this is good. Hell yeah. I wanted to illustrate this somehow with what we were talking about, and you just gave me, you gave it to me right here with, uh, the, the ripple effect. So with somebody who is a do it yourself or somebody that is working on themselves in their personal time, not only, then they're making their life better by fixing up their kitchen, a better connection with their family, but it also entertained. Back into the workplace because when somebody who is in charge, whether you're applying for a job or you're currently in a position and they ask you, you being the set employer saying, Hey, what do you do in your spare time? You know, you're like, oh, I'm working on the kitchen. Well now not. That does that illustrate that you are an achiever, you're doing stuff that average people doesn't do, but that gets you the possibility to get promoted and to start taking charge and other.

Yes, that is awesome. There you go. Hell

yeah. Tell me, tell me more, tell me what's going through your head right now. I just had the illustrate there. That was good.

Yeah, no, I mean, I'm just happy I'm giving you, you know, uh, you know, I'm not hitting line drives based on the, you know, on the pitches I'm throwing at you. Um, you know, I, I love the story that comes to mind when. You know, there are people who are between jobs, right? And then they say, Hey, you know what, let me just start volunteering. And so they go to their local church or whatever, they start helping out with like the coffee shop or things like that. And then the skills that they learn in volunteering, and then, you know, getting promoted to coordinate volunteers, actually parlays them, uh, actual employment, right? Like those stories are wonderful because people realize, oh, you know what? I just need to up. To demonstrate where I'm improving and now, um, you know, either I can be broke and not do anything or I can be broken, helping, and eventually, you know, that that's a, still a way to work on your resume, right? Because when people say, Hey, what are you doing with your dead time? You can end if you just say, well, you know, no, I just sat around and felt sorry for myself and hope that, you know, Uh, you know, a friend would hire me. It's like, no, like you don't need to wait for someone to take pity on you to do something. It's like, no, like you can say, oh, I I've learned to cook new recipes or, you know, I read more books on leadership to improve myself. Right. Um, when people realize, Hey, you know what, like there are productive actions that can do, even as I'm waiting, um, where it's an active form of waiting, not a passive form of waiting, um, things always end up better. I think I really

liked that. And also I got a caveat, one more thing that I got. The whole ripple effect. I got to throw one more piece on there cause I wanna make it a big cheeseburger. I want to make it a double fucking quarter pounder. So the leaders who are asking that question one, you're taking that active role one in your position, but you're learning the personnel that works for you and what they're doing. So you can use their understanding of what things they can do to do to you to coordinate your manpower. The people that you have. To do the very specific things that they can do. Thus, they take more responsibility. Thus, you look better, thus everybody's better. And then it's all, it's all around. Good forever. Absolutely just by one individual. Well, to him and him, if you just fucking take the active role and do what you're supposed to do, shit fucking ends up good for the entire organization. That's fantastic. Now with you, how did you, why did you get into coaching? Why did, why are you doing that?

Yeah, great question. Um, I know it's my own personal journey. What I tell people, the tagline of you stumbled a couple of times, is that leadership saved my career. And that, you know, I got fired from the teaching job. I moved to Houston for, and that was a, a painful wake up call. I did not appreciate at the time, but it really is necessary. And so that the rollercoaster got weirder after that ended up. How's the cards, pharmacy job, where four of my paychecks bounced only for crooked doctors, not a good situation. Um, but you know, in my conflict diversion, right, I'm still scared. And, you know, to deal with difficult situations that people are upset with me, especially a boss is clearly ripping me. And so, you know, and then even worse, he's like, well, I can't, you know, make up the difference unless you move more crooked scripts. So now I have to dirty my license even more just to even try to make break even on my, on my bills. And so, uh, the next company, my friends helped me get me out of that one, got into another one where money was tight and said, Hey, we like you, but we can't pay more than eight hours. And I said, oh, and so I moved out to Austin temporarily, which is about two and a half hours away and, you know, to get more hours. And now I have no idea what my life is going to look like. And that was the summer where I was tapped to help teach some leadership workshops through a pharmacy leadership on profits. Some of my friends run and you know, that was the transformation, right. When I had the. And then a saw modeled for me in an effective way before I said, oh, leadership is hard. You know, I haven't been good at it. I guess I'll never be good at it. Just very pessimistic fixed mindset level stuff. And then now it was asking myself, well, what if I could be a good leader, right? Oh, give him permission to succeed. Uh, or for the possibility that success is within my. And so, Hey, how would I carry myself? What work would that involve and try struggle, fail. Like I got written up the next year by that company, even after it took a full-time manager position in Houston, because I said, okay, I'm ready to take on this challenge. And, you know, my technicians were acting up and my company said, Nope, you're also part of the problem because you're not willing to discipline or fire them. And I said, oh, more humble pie. All right, just serve it up. And. You know, the only reason I even got a, an interview after that company had his funding pulled was that I had leadership experience on my resume. So I said, wow, that was a really good decision. I'm glad I did that. But, um, the jobs that I even, I, even though I have more options available to me, um, the jobs would only last, I want it two years. I say, you know, I had more icebergs to hop to, but they were still melts, you know, after awhile. And so when my previous company, uh, went under four years ago, I said, well, you know, I'm tired of chasing scripts and tired of fighting insurance companies. I love developing people, you know, through these workshops that I've been helping with since 2012. What if I had a career full-time trying to do this? And so still scared of failure. I was still scared of rejection and it took a pandemic for me to finally open up the LLC and get the website. You know, try to get that thing going. And so, um, yeah, but that's what got me into coaching because I want to focus my time on developing people and not, um, you know, pushing scripts any longer like

that. And I understand it with being. Like once you like leave a job, you bounce to a different job, and then you go to another job and somehow it doesn't work. A lot of people won't see this struggle, but I've experienced this struggle with you where we pivot towards opportunities. But what people, when they, when they see that and they're hiring, they, they, they think of you as someone who's just going to up and leave when that is not the case. It's like, you try to explain it. The light. No, dude. Yeah.

People tell themselves different stories about your resume, right? It doesn't matter what actually happened. They see evidence and they come up with their own conclusion. Then they believe they're accurate. They're justified, you know, if it fits their narrative, great, if not, well, you know, maybe you don't want to work for them anyway. So exactly.

And that's why, uh, shit, I think it was like maybe three episodes ago out whoever I was speaking to, he said, do not bend who you are. So regarding. Of your past own it and just be you, you either going to get the job or you're not. And why would you want to get a job if you're not even being the person you are to get the job, it's not worth it. It's just going to be more miserable than you think. So. Where can our listeners get in touch with you if they want to learn more?

Yeah. Um, people can connect with me on LinkedIn if they want, but the, all the good stuff happens@wwwdotadaptingleaders.com. There's a free downloadable guide on handling hard conversations. You can schedule a complimentary 30 minute call. And, uh, there's a blog there where I summarize, you know, interesting and useful leadership books and offer other life hacks. So whether you hire me for formal coaching packages for yourself or your organization, great. Otherwise just plenty of free stuff for you to help transform your own life.

Oh yeah. Jerry, is there anything else I have not asked you that you would like to share the audience today?

Apparently one of the, one of the more interesting questions. Um, my pod match profile was what are three likes life hacks that you would tell your younger self? So I can, I can do that. So if I had, if I had the chance to travel back in time and tell my younger self, Hey, um, here are three things. That'll make your path a little easier. Number one, um, get curious about difficult situations. Don't don't. Uh, you know, you don't get better by avoiding. So that's the first thing I would tell myself the second, I would tell myself that, Hey, um, read more books. Like it can only help you, uh, to at least have the information there. Um, it's up to you to apply it, but at least have the information there. And then three is, um, if you're upset, um, you know, or if you, if there's a, if you find yourself resentful, uh, you don't have to settle. You know, just go. And if, you know, if you're upset with a friend, you know, about something they did, or you know, that they're showing a pattern that you're tired of dealing with, Hey, you know, why settle for a subpar friendship? Like you're better off if, if even if you have a falling out, right, you're better off knowing, Hey, at least that, at least they know why I was this up with them instead of just, you know, holding onto someone and hoping that it get over it.

I really liked that don't don't settle. I definitely can relate with that. I was living in Durango, Colorado. I was there for maybe a month and a half, almost two months, moved out to a small town and it just, it didn't hit where I wanted to hit and beautiful area. I, I miss it to death to this day, but I just made the decision. You know what it, I'm not having. I'm moving. I'm going to just, I went to Texas actually. So I ended up going all the way out there to San Antonio and was homeless for about a week, week and a half. And, uh, finally got myself a place and then it was just on from there. And now here I am in Missouri.

But, uh,

so that, that, is it anything else you would like to relate about your product? Anything, something cool. If not, Jerry,

we can let you. Sure I can mention one other thing. Um, right now I host a monthly book discussion called coaching by the book, uh, that happens on the first Wednesday of every month and where we take books, like, you know, uh, advice trapped by Michael Bungay Stanier, or some of the Heath brothers books that I love. So. Um, the next one that's coming up. As of this recording, I'm excited to announce the title of the book is called how to castrate a bull by Dave hits, uh, the founder of NetApp. And he talks about how we took NetApp to like the startup company up to like this enterprise company. And people are just like, I've never heard of this guy a desk because NetApp does. Memory storage for companies like Southwest and Yahoo. So they're more behind the scenes, but they can't afford to lose that data. Right. Because that's the, if the systems go down and you lose flight information, oh, you know, Southwest is in trouble, but yeah, the guy's a billionaire. And if you want to, you know, hear about how to become a bill. Uh, you know, studies read his book. So, um, yeah. Books like this, right. Um, you know, it's the time for, to network. I give you a summary. We have some facilitated discussion about it. So it's a nice way to connect with people, um, and just get some useful information that you might, um, apply to your own life and see some Susan dividence there.

Beautiful. All right, Jerry, I'm gonna let you go. I appreciate your

time today. I started out good to everybody. You've been listening to your transformation station, your voice on the hard truths of leadership. We hope you've enjoyed the show. We hope you've gotten some useful and practical information. Make sure to like rate and review the show. Remember your transformation station is on all major platforms, including Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, Tik, TOK, and YouTube at followfavazza and visit. At FOLLOWFAVAZZA.COM till next time.